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The Great Porridge Debate[edit]

The British / American English comments are incorrect. It's not a British/American difference. Most people in both countries use the word oatmeal to refer to rolled oats, crushed oats, porridge, etc. in daily life, recipe books, paint shops and so on. So the stuff about dialect differences doesn't stand up to scrutiny. This isn't a dialect difference.

The difference is more that between a technical term and a non-technical term. Just as people use the word "Hoover" when they mean "any kind of vacuum cleaner", they use the word "oatmeal" when they mean "any kind of oats". And that's true whether you live in Boston, Lincolnshire or London, Ontario. -- Derek Ross

No it's not a just technical term. I have several different brands and kinds of "oatmeal" labeled oatmeal in my cupboard right now and none of them are "oat flour" or what you call oatmeal. The article has to discuss what this stuff really is. Perhaps it is not a British/American difference but that is the only conclusion I could draw from the article you wrote which did not discuss anything I would call oatmeal. Rmhermen 17:41 Apr 11, 2003 (UTC)
I doubt if very many people in Boston call a vacuum cleaner a Hoover. ASAIK, that's a Britishism. -- Zoe
You doubt if many people in Boston, Lincolnshire call a vacuum cleaner a Hoover. Well, you may be right, I've never been there so I don't know for sure. -- Derek Ross
I thought the posting above was discussing three different places, not two. -- Zoe
"Discuss what it really is". Well, it's a type of meal, like cornmeal, wheatmeal, or peasemeal. The meal part means that it's the ground product of a mill and, indeed, all these products are ground, some coarsely, some finely. That's what I described in the original article. I'm well aware that the majority of people use the term loosely to refer to porridge but if you take a look at the articles which link to oatmeal you'll find that they are mostly referring to classic ground oatmeal. -- Derek Ross
The more you say the more I think it is a Briish/American defference. What in the world is wheatmeal? Who has ever seen peasemeal outside of a nursery rhyme? Cornmeal is corn that hasn't been ground fine enough to be corn flour. Just as oatmeal is a product not fine enough to be called oat flour, which flour is only rarely found in supermarkets - usually only health food stores, so it is certainly not something a American recipe usually calls for. Classic ground oatmeal doesn't mean to me what it means to you. I think you mean oat flour. And the porridge entry was just wrong because porridge isn't only ever made from oats. It can be made from any meal - it's just usually oats. Rmhermen 14:54 Apr 12, 2003 (UTC)
I agree with what you say about porridge being made from any kind of meal. The article should be changed to say that. I also agree with what you say about the difference between cornmeal and cornflour but I would go on to say that this is exactly the difference between oatmeal and oat flour or wheatmeal and wheat flour. I can't recall seeing oat flour in British supermarkets either. As you say it's not something that a recipe, American or otherwise, usually calls for. Generally all that you see in English supermarkets is rolled oats (Scott's or Quaker's) for making porridge. In Scottish supermarkets you will get oatmeal as I have described it as well as Quaker's oats, but I've never seen oat flour for sale.
Wheatmeal is mostly used by bakery companies to produce biscuits, cookies or crackers (the British digestive biscuit, the American Graham cracker or the Australian wheatmeal biscuit for instance). Retail consumers would find it more difficult to lay their hands on it.
Peasemeal is only of historical interest nowadays, I suppose, but while pease porridge may not be too popular anymore, hummus is easy enough to buy and it's much the same thing but made with olive oil. Pea flour in the form of soya flour is a bit easier to find although, like oat flour, you might well have to go to a health food outlet for it.
Changing the subject slightly what brands and kinds of oatmeal do you have in your cupboard ? I'm curious about the difference between Scottish oatmeal and US oatmeal. -- Derek Ross 05:55 Apr 13, 2003 (UTC)
I see we agree now that oat flour is not oatmeal. Actually one of the products I have in my cupboard is Scottish oatmeal, or at least an American product billing itself as such. It is stone ground and highly variable in particle size, probably unsifted. I also have Quaker Rolled Oats and probably Quaker Quick Oats which give on the back a recipe for making "oatmeal". And Quaker Instant Oatmeal. As far as I can tell, Rolled oats are just smashed at the mill, Quick Oats are cut then smashed, Instant Oatmeal is cut, smashed and partially pre-cooked. There is also steel-cut oats which I think is the same as Irish oatmeal but how this differs from Scottish oatmeal I don't know. As a side, does anyone actually use the word porridge outside of fairy tales? Rmhermen 13:55 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
I say Porridge, and in my family we tend to refer to them as simply "oats" or "porridge oats" (talk) 12:45, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Sometimes my wife and I use the word porridge to refer to oatmeal (generic version of Quaker Oats) when talking to our kids, mainly to increase its appeal based on the fairy tale connection. :-) Wesley 14:03 Apr 16, 2003 (UTC)
Well, since we Scots use the word oatmeal to refer to the dry coarsely ground oats which we use to make poultry stuffing, skirlie, cranachan, oatcakes, porridge, etc., it means that we need another word to refer to oatmeal made into a breakfast dish, so we still call that porridge. I must admit that I wouldn't normally connect it with fairy tales any more than I would connect beans with fairy tales, although I can think of fairy tales that mention porridge (and beans). Still, anything to get the little ones to eat up, eh! Thinking about it further, not all breakfast porridge in Britain is made of oatmeal. The Weetabix product is very popular but it makes a wheat porridge rather than an oatmeal one. -- Derek Ross 04:09 Apr 17, 2003 (UTC)

What we call oats or oatmeal in India[edit]

actually i saw a Ronnie Coleman's(a recent body builber n mr.universe 2005) video where he is being shown eating oatmeal.. but actually i reside in india so can somebody give me an indian name of oat n oatmeal either in hindi, oriya , bengali or punjabi!.. plz here is my email add too where u can mail my queries plzz

nowyat says: The whole oatmeal debate is important in literature as it forms not only part of Samuel Johnson's accolade of the Scottish breakfast being the greatest breakfast of all, but Sir Walter Scott makes much of it. Obsessive readers tend to dive into the culinary style of their current reading. Haggis is rather a high bar for the casual cook, but hopefully anyone can force their entire family to eat some of Sir Walter Scott's Scottish oatcakes... (talk) 05:43, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Force ? Oatcakes are the perfect cracker for cheese. No need to force anyone to eat that (unless they dislike cheese). -- Derek Ross | Talk 18:04, 4 August 2008 (UTC)

Alan Greenspan[edit]

"U.S. Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan, likes his oatmeal with raisins in it." - I don't see why mentioning a famous person who likes oatmeal is non-encyclopedic. I think it makes the article more interesting. I happen to like oatmeal with raisins and I found it interesting when I learned about someone else who did also. H2O 13:51, 25 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Why don't you try contributing say a section on the various flavorings and garnishes used in oatmeal. (raisins don't appear so far in the article) Rmhermen 14:08, Mar 25, 2004 (UTC)
The fact that someone finds something interesting doesn't make that fact encyclopedic.

Actually, raisins do appear in the article. If you look closely under each of the two pictures, the captions mention raisins being in oatmeal. The flavorings belong in an article about Quaker Oats, since anything else would be POV. 21:12, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Merely for removing this funny vandalism that first appeared on the main article page: Hey man, you tryin' to hit up this Oatmeal? Guroadrunner 11:47, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

More on the Great Porridge Debate[edit]

Actually, Rolled Oats are first steamed, then flattened. To add to the discussion of distinctions, what I gathered from some Internet research and the available products in my city (Montreal) we have the following:

  • Oats is the cereal
    • I have found in nature store whole grains of oats being called "oats almonds" (I should double-check, though). I tried cooking them to make porridge but to no use. I suppose they are for soup, like barley.
  • Oatmeal is the catch-all term for processed, cookable oats to be used in porridge, stuffings, cookies, etc.
    • Of which we have four categories:
  1. Steel-cut oats, or Irish oats, which present the biggest grains. Pieces are about the third of the size of a whole grain, and their size is calibrated.
  2. Stone-ground oats, or Scottish oats: I have been able to find it only once: it fits the description above of various-sized grains, uncalibrated, and of irregular shapes. I'm having it for breakfast today! The "Scottish Oatmeal" I bought comes from the USA, mind you.
  3. Rolled oats, the most commonly found variety, in which the raw grains are steamed, then rolled. If the grain was whole at the moment of processing, they are called "Old-fashioned", and take longer to cook (but more tasty). If the grain was broken somehow, then they are just generic "rolled oats" or sometimes just "oatmeal".
  4. Instant oatmeal: is actually pre-cooked when bought, unlike all the preceding varieties. Oats is cooked, flavored, then cooled down, dried, and processed into flakes.

If you put the terms in order of + abstract to - abstract, we have something like this:

Oats -> Oatmeal -> Porridge

And you will notice that the terms at the end of the series, can often be referred to be the terms earlier in the series: people having porridge will also say that they are having oatmeal, etc. I cannot say anything about oat flour, as I've never encountered it, but in French, Rolled Oats are commonly referred to as such: "Farine d'avoine" (oat flour), by older people. For instance, my steel box of John McCann's "Irish Oatmeal"--a product of Ireland, from County Kildare [see their website)--bears alongside it on the bilingual label (thanks law 101!) "Farine d'Avoine Irlandaise", i.e. "oats flour". In French, we use the term "gruau" for the dish of cooked oats (usually rolled, as it's hard to find the other kinds), but when our moms ask us to go out to buy some oats stuff to make cookies, they would also ask us to buy "gruau". Because the words "gruau" (the equivalent of "porridge"), "flocons d'avoine" and "farine d'avoine", which should be respectively: the meal, the product to cook the meal, and the ingredient in cooking/pastry, have all the same referent in Quebec (Quaker's stuff in a box), their meaning is collapsing, so that we use one term for the other. (sorry, I haven't made a wikipedia account yet!) 16:35, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC) <--- Michel Hardy 04:28, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think that when you say "their meaning is collapsing", you have hit the nail on the head.

If you want to make porridge with whole oat grains, you will need to soak them for a day beforehand and then boil them for a very long time. That's why porridge is generally made from rolled oats or from oatmeal: it's easier to deal with.

I'm afraid that I would only call your first two categories "oatmeal". The last two are respectively rolled oats and pre-cooked porridge to my mind but I am glad to hear that you had "proper" oatmeal for breakfast. The flavour is definitely better. Another thing that you might want to try is to fry your stone-ground "Scottish" oatmeal with onions and some oil. This is called "skirlie" and is an extremely tasty dish.

I agree with your diagram

Oats -> Oatmeal -> Porridge

but would add

Wheat -> Wheatmeal -> Porridge
Peas -> Peasemeal -> Porridge

as well.

As for the difference between Irish and Scottish oatmeal, this seems to be a marketing difference to me. In Scotland some oatmeal is stone ground and some is steel ground but the result is pretty similar. In both cases the machinery can be set to create big pieces (coarse), medium pieces (pinhead), or tiny pieces (fine ground). I would imagine that the same is true in Ireland.

In Britain we differentiate between porridge and gruel. Gruel is normally thinner and may be made with vegetable or animal stock rather than plain water but is otherwise the same thing. -- Derek Ross | Talk 01:46, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)

Yes, I think adding the wheat and pea varieties are meanigful as well. I wasn't actually aware that the "Scottish" oats was not really a category; when I buy "scottish" oat cookies (Nairn's), they are made from coarsly ground grains, so I was under the assumption that this had something to do with regional origins. Actually, on the related issue of cookies, when I went to Cape Breton this summer (in Nova Scotia), I noticed that most bakeries make oat(meal) cookies, although usually from rolled oats (another result of the Quakerisation of North America). I'd be curious to find out how to make them from stone-ground or steel-cut oats, as I gather it will give them a richer flavour. Michel Hardy 04:28, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Nairn's in Scotland make quite a wide variety of oatcakes. They sell oatcakes made both from coarse oatmeal and from fine oatmeal as well as organic oatcakes, cheese oatcakes and other variations. However in Calgary, I've only seen their organic and rough (coarse) oatcakes. Perhaps it's the same story in Montreal. It's a far cry from Scotland where there is a huge variety of oatcakes and every local baker seems to have their own special recipe, some fine, some coarse, but at least Nairn's make quite a decent oatcake so things could be worse. I do miss Stockan & Garden's Thick Orkney Oatcakes though. These are a triangular fine ground oatcake with a particularly excellent flavour and I will certainly be bringing them back from my next visit to Arbroath, whenever that is. -- Derek Ross | Talk 07:27, 2004 Oct 28 (UTC)

what do we call oat or oatmeal in india

actually i saw a Ronnie Coleman's(a recent body builber n mr.universe 2005) video where he is being shown eating oatmeal.. but actually i reside in india so can somebody give me an indian name of oat n oatmeal either in hindi, oriya , bengali or punjabi!.. plz here is my email add too where u can mail my queries plzz

Oatmeal is what the most popular brand in a country says it is[edit]

To Americans and Canadians and those countries where America has bases (especially Asia), "oatmeal" is overwhelmingly best represented by the Quaker brand. It is even the representative picture in this article, defining for us what oatmeal is.

If you travel around the world, and not just confine yourself to Europe or America or wherever, you'll realize that a brand name can penetrate so pervasively and completely that the proper name of the thing itself is derived not from the original English word but rather from the name of the most famous brand that represents it. For example, "bleach" is called "lax" because it is a short way of saying "Chlorox" ("---rox" = "lax"). Instant coffee cream is referred to as "prim" because that's the name of the most successful brand.

Likewise, for North Americans, "oatmeal" is what the Quaker company says it is, which in my tin is crushed dried whole grain oats with a whitish color. Just add water and wait a few minutes and you're good to go. Porridge? Maybe, but only if the tin says so. I'd have to check to be sure, but what I know the tin to say for sure is "oatmeal".

Another example of brand penetration is "Jello" in North America. Yes, some of us may want to refer to it as "gelatin", but many people call any brand of instant desert gelatin "jello" without even giving it a second thought.

I have no idea if Quaker is even sold in Europe, but if they think "oatmeal" means something else, now you know why. -- (Someone who didn't bother to sign)

I haven't a clue what Europeans think "oatmeal" means in fact I don't think many of them eat it. But Quaker is certainly the main seller of instant porridge in Scotland. It's probably the most popular brand under either their "Quaker" or their "Scotts" brands too. Yet Scotsmen still know the difference between oatmeal and porridge. Why don't North Americans get it ? -- Derek Ross | Talk 14:38, 27 July 2005 (UTC)
If Quaker sells the same material as "oatmeal" in North America and as "porridge" in Scotland or the UK, then obviously this means it's just a case of "I say potato, you say po-tah-to". Europeans use "corn" to refer to wheat but wheat is just wheat in North America, and corn is the just the big yellow thing with the cob...all of that means the two sides do indeed use grain-related words differently, so it's pointless to argue who is "right" or not. Unless you want to put it to a democratic vote, in which case the North American definitions of 300,000,000 people win out, plus the Asian countries where America has bases. If that isn't a satisfactory solution, then the differences just have to be respected. --Atrahasis 12:21, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

If you're going to start this silly "we've got more English speakers than you have" nonsense, please refer to the petrol/gasoline debate where it has already been hashed out in much greater detail than I ever want to cover... -- Derek Ross | Talk 14:47, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Excuse me, but if you read carefully the gist of my words is that people use the words differently and that these differences should be respected. It's the exact opposite of trying to argue which is more "correct" which is what other people seem to be doing. --Atrahasis 14:51, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Except that nobody calls oatmeal "Quaker", as in "I had Quaker for breakfast", so this is a false analogy. People are debating over what oatmeal is, not confusing or interchanging it with a brand name. Compare to "I wiped my nose with a Kleenex" or "I made some Xeroxes" for real examples of brand name pervasiveness.

I'm not convinced oatmeal should be totally associated with Scotland. In fact, this food has its origins dating back to the stone age and was certainly consumed throughout what is now modern Europe and beyond.

Small Question[edit]

Is it true that eating Oatmeal increases the Male Sex Drive? --Arima 06:15, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

Sure, if it is smeared on a woman's breasts. 11:02, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I live in Ireland and near enough to the Flahavans Oats Plant, which is the biggest maker of Porridge in the country. I'll see if I can get one of the Flahavans to contribute to this debate. If anyone knows their oats, it'll be them!

The Preparation of Porridge[edit]

Although oatmeal porridge is traditionally prepared with water, it appears to have become common practice in my experience for it to be prepared with milk. Milk arguably offers advantages in: nutrition; flavour; and texture.

I propose the creation of a separate section on various preparation techniques.

Health Benefits[edit]

It would be nice for this article to address the claims made recently by Quaker Oats that eating oatmeal for 30 days reduces the amount of cholesterol in the body. The article could perhaps mention this claim and what studies this claim is based on. On this talk page, perhaps a nutritionist could also provide his/her opinion on the validity of these claims? 20:47, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Possible Merger[edit]

As I don't want to resurrect the porridge debate above, but I think the bulk of this page belongs in the Porridge article. Obviously the American use of "oatmeal" to mean a breakfast cereal (even when it's made from whole oats, not from meal) is identical to the English word "porridge". So the Breakfast Cereal and Vermont sections obviously should be mereged there.

In the Scottish section there's really only a few points about the grades of oatmeal coarseness and its uses, which could easily be incorporated into Oat. (That recipe certainly doesn't belong here!) I'll leave open the question of whether Oatmeal should redirect there of if there's sufficent information on the different coarsenesses and uses of oat-meal to justify leaving a page here.

Nick 16:51, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Oppose. This page is about oatmeal. That page is about porridge. They are not about the same thing. Porridge does not mean oatmeal nor must it be made from oats - or even from a grain. Remeber pease porridge? Rmhermen 02:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

what do we call oat or oatmeal in india[edit]

actually i saw a Ronnie Coleman's(a recent body builber n mr.universe 2005) video where he is being shown eating oatmeal.. but actually i reside in india so can somebody give me an indian name of oat n oatmeal either in hindi, oriya , bengali or punjabi!.. plz here is my email add too where u can mail my queries plzz (email address removed) we called it "DALIYA" in hindi

Trivia dealt with[edit]

I got rid of the trivia section by moving the information to other areas in the article or deleting it, as appropriate. Phasmatisnox 12:27, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Scottish settlement of Vermont?[edit]

This statement appears to be false: the wikipedia page on Vermont makes no mention of any Scots involved in settling Vermont, and Vermonters of Scottish origin make up only 4.6 percent of the state's population. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:47, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Citation Needed request for "Coarse, Pin(head) and Fine" sentence and its paragraph[edit]

Currently, a paragraph in the article says, "In Scotland, oatmeal is created by grinding oats into a coarse powder.[11] Various grades are available depending on the thoroughness of the grinding, including Coarse, Pin(head) and Fine oatmeal." Google books reports

Unfortunately, the snippet is not available to view online for verification it in fact says that, all that seems available is the Google summary. I will not place a citation to an non-viewable resource, however, others may decide differently. It is perhaps worth noting the one sentence seems a word-for-word copy, sans capitalization, thus it should be quoted and cited in the article for copyright; verification of the text's existence in the work still seems prudent. Gzuufy (talk) 16:49, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Because of the copyright violation, I placed the cite reluctantly. Gzuufy (talk) 01:23, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Interesting. You may be correct. It does look as if Aliza Green has violated our copyright. It would indeed be worth checking her book to see if she has copied anything else from our Oatmeal article. However I am not inclined to sue her over a single plagiarised sentence, even though I published it on Wikipedia three years before she published her book. Of course she may have given me credit under the terms of the GFDL licence, in which case no copyright violation has taken place. On the other hand this makes your citation rather problematic. You cannot use a citation from a work which is based on the very sentence that requires citation! -- Derek Ross | Talk 17:07, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing that out, I'll go undo that last cite, as I certainly agree with your last sentence. I did not check any timelines regarding when the sentence was created versus the book publishing date, and instead apparently made a biased presumption. Gzuufy (talk) 22:59, 18 February 2011 (UTC)

Sizes of rolled oatmeal[edit]

I get my oatmeal from a whole foods store and it says #3 (thick) rolled oats. And searching for oatmeal online you can buy in bulk at IFS Grain - Oats Rolled Regular (Old Fashioned #5)

Is the rolled size an industry standard? And if so, how many sizes are there and how is it measured? I can't seem to find it anywhere online. If somebody knows can they add it to the wiki article?

Merger proposal[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

I propose that rolled oats and steel-cut oats be merged into oatmeal. I think that the content in the rolled oats article and the steel-cut oats article can easily be explained in the context of oatmeal, and the oatmeal article is of a reasonable size that the merging of rolled oats and steel-cut oats will not cause any problems as far as article size or undue weight is concerned. Michipedian (talk) 14:55, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Seems reasonable to me. -- Derek Ross | Talk 00:36, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

In Australia we call rolled oats and steel cut oats the raw ingredient, and oatmeal or porridge is the cooked breakfast using those ingredients. Rolled oats and steel cut oats are processed differently so are not identical but could potentially be differentiated under the one title 'oats'? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lucindakoch (talkcontribs) 00:49, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

There are two elements to consider, the accuracy of the information and the user's ease in accessing the information. The discussion 9so far) is not questioning the former, so we should be looking only at the latter. Any excess click the user needs to reach the desired information should be eliminated (compare the dictum in Strunk & White). Even more so, when the user isn't sure exactly what's being looked for, minimizing the number of clicks is essential. The bottom line: merging the articles is preferable, provided that the index includes the necessary headings, so that users can navigate by both click and scroll. Kromholz (talk) 22:05, 21 April 2016 (UTC)Kromholz

I support a merger. I hope that the merged article will explain the varying terminology used in different parts if the English-speaking world. Maproom (talk) 07:55, 8 May 2016 (UTC)
Which merger - Michipedian's rolled oats and steel-cut oats into oatmeal or Lucindakoch's rolled oats and steel cut into oats? Krumholz doesn't seem to expressed an opinion either way. Rmhermen (talk) 21:28, 9 May 2016 (UTC)

I am also an Australian and we called rolled oats the 'raw product', and porridge/oatmeal the cook product. Further, rolled oats can be used in recipes, from an Australian perspective, it'd be confusing to say: 'add some oatmeal to your recipe'. That would imply cooked rolled oats, which is different! — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 06:02, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

The merge seems to me ok at first glance. Also keeping the other language wikis in mind it might be a good idea to separate articles for the plant (oat), the basic food product/ingredient(oatmeal/rolled oats) and various well known dishes (oatmeal/oat porridge).--Kmhkmh (talk) 13:43, 9 July 2016 (UTC)

I oppose the merger on the basis that the three types of oats are marketed very differently. Oatmeal is a healthy breakfast option, rolled oats are used to make old-fashioned oatmeal porridge or in baking, steel-cut oats are a more obscure thing and not exactly what most people think of as "oatmeal". I would support some sort of article, either oats or processed oats or prepared oats that talks about rolled vs steel-cut vs ground oats (white oats). Speaking of which, I've never seen these so-called "ground oats" so if someone has had experience with them could write about more about them or show a picture... Are they basically steel-cut oats but chopped up a lot more?? --Bod (talk) 02:41, 30 October 2016 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Oatmeal/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

There are only two different varieties around the world? That part definitely needs to be expanded. -- Warfreak 01:03, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Last edited at 01:03, 17 June 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 01:40, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

Health benefits[edit]

I think the following should be added to the article in the health section but it is being reverted. Cochrane is among the most trusted source for biomedical evidence out there. I agree that it would be better if the studies were longer and more focused on oatmeal specifically, but my suggested wording makes the latter point clear. These weaknesses appear to reflect the state of knowledge on the topic and should, I think, be included along with the current ruling with no clear empirical basis from a government agency.

"In contrast, a meta-analysis of randomized studies of dietary interventions involving whole grains (which includes whole grain wheat, rice, maize, oats and oatmeal) found that research was of low quality, often sponsored "by organisations with commercial interests in cereals" and found "no effects on blood cholesterol or blood pressure in favour of whole grain diets".[1]" -Pengortm (talk) 17:05, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

Cochrane review on grains[edit]

Removed this content and source below because it is not specifically related to oatmeal, covers only a short period of consumption (12 weeks or less), and involved weak studies. If it discussed oatmeal specifically and for a longer term with higher-quality trials, it would be a better source, but this entry doesn't clarify anything about oatmeal. Further, it is WP:UNDUE in comparison to the FDA ruling here as used in the article to state what is a well-established fact about lowering blood cholesterol from long-term consumption of oat soluble fiber. --Zefr (talk) 17:07, 27 December 2017 (UTC)

In contrast, a meta-analysis of randomized studies of dietary interventions involving whole grains (which includes whole grain wheat, rice, maize, oats and oatmeal) found that research was of low quality, often sponsored "by organisations with commercial interests in cereals" and found "no effects on blood cholesterol or blood pressure in favour of whole grain diets".[2]
Ok, if this source is unrepresentative of well-established fact, can you give sources which establish this? The FDA doesn't define what well-established facts are--empirical studies do. - Pengortm (talk) 17:15, 27 December 2017 (UTC)


  1. ^ "Whole grain cereals for cardiovascular disease | Cochrane". doi:10.1002/14651858.CD005051.pub3.
  2. ^ "Whole grain cereals for cardiovascular disease | Cochrane". doi:10.1002/14651858.CD005051.pub3.
An FDA health claim represents the best available collective evidence for an effect that can then be used for labeling by the industry as a whole. In food studies, there isn't a higher standard. The same outcome resulted from a scientific review by the European Food Safety Authority. We shouldn't reflexly use a Cochrane review when it covers only weak studies and particularly when it is non-specific to the article's topic. --Zefr (talk) 17:21, 27 December 2017 (UTC)


North American oatmeal can include the substance when it's heated with water, while British English doesn't. BrE oatmeal is dry and uncooked and the idea of having oatmeal for breakfast is as bizarre as having wheat-flour for breakfast.

Is there a specific change you are proposing for the article? TylerDurden8823 (talk) 06:22, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Health hazard?[edit]

I keep seeing alternative health/news sources' articles on the dangers of oatmeal. Is there any reputable support for this? This one site seems to be good:; this one cites a study on gluten:, but there are other dire claims on marginal sites.Kdammers (talk) 05:53, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

No, these are very unreliable sources and they are not credible sources of information. The is not a good source either (sorry). TylerDurden8823 (talk) 06:21, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
I'm not an expert in this field, but the sources cited by the (advocacy) site glutenfreesociety at least have respectable-sounding names: Silano M, et al. Diversity of oat varieties in eliciting the early inflammatory events in celiac disease. Eur J Nutr

Maglio M, Mazzarella G, Barone MV, et al. Immunogenicity of two oat varieties, in relation to their safety for celiac patients. Scand J Gastroenterol. 2011 Oct;46(10):1194-205. Real A, Comino I, de Lorenzo L, et al. Molecular and immunological characterization of gluten proteins isolated from oat cultivars that differ in toxicity for celiac disease. PLoS One. 2012;7(12). Fric P, Gabrovska D, Nevoral J. Celiac disease, gluten-free diet, and oats. Nutr Rev. 2011 Feb;69(2):107-1. Kdammers (talk) 15:31, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Oatmeal is a health-supporting food – and not a health hazard – for more than 99% of consumers, but may carry a small risk to the remaining 1% (or less) due to oat avenin sensitivity and possible gluten-related disorders from celiac disease, explained in the oat article here. Not only is the 1% consumer-sensitivity low, but not all oatmeal products would contain the contaminant, sensitivity-producing avenins, making the incidence for oatmeal sensitivity a fraction of 1%. Based on the oat article discussion of this small risk from oats to a small fraction of consumers, we could add a short section discussing it, if the talk page consensus agrees per WP:CON; draft below. --Zefr (talk) 16:08, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Draft: In 1% or less of the general population, there is a risk of gluten sensitivity to oat proteins, but a 2017 review found no evidence for increased symptoms of gluten sensitivity when people with celiac disease consumed oat products for a year. PMID 28431885 A further review concluded "that oats uncontaminated by gluten-containing cereals (wheat, rye, and barley) can be safely ingested by most patients with celiac disease and that there is no conclusive evidence that the consumption of uncontaminated or specially produced oats containing no greater than 20 ppm gluten by patients with celiac disease should be limited to a specific daily amount." PMID 27446825

I meant the specific sites you cited above Kdammers. They had pseudoscientific nonsense all over them. With that said, they very well may have cited some reasonable sources. Some pseudoscientific sources are more clever and have a mix of nonsense and well-cited sources to seem more credible. TylerDurden8823 (talk) 22:13, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
Some oat products come from mills or factories that also process other grains such as wheat and barley which is an issue for people sensitive to gluten.Geofpick (talk) 10:04, 18 August 2020 (UTC)

incorrectly posted[edit]

On what basis did you remove the rolled oats comments? Looking at the Wikipedia article on rolled oats, I can't see a basis for the removal.Kdammers (talk) 02:09, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

Rolled Oats are first steamed, then flattened. Gareth Griffith-Jones (contribs) (talk) 08:56, 14 August 2020 (UTC)